Hacker News | Vue.js

Baochip-1x: What it is, why I'm doing it now and how it came about

192 points by timhh | 3 days ago | 26 comments

bunnie - 6 hours ago

Hello wonderful people! I'm bunnie - just noticed this is on HN. Unfortunately due to timezones I'm about to afk for a bit. I'll check back when I can, and try to answer questions that accumulate here.

vintagedave - an hour ago

This is wonderful! Also what a fantastic partnership that allowed adding a new CPU to that die. Kudos to them.

I had a lot of trouble finding out which open source license applies. Wikipedia’s RISC-V page doesn’t seem to say; its citation for being released under open source doesn’t seem to say which one either.[0] Could be wrong. Exhausted after working all day. But it’s not front and center…

On the RISC-V site I thought it might be more prominent too but if it is I missed it. I found some docs there licensed Creative Commons. Is that the license for the entire CPU? Even layouts and everything that is past the ISA to actual silicon?

[0] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/188405-risc-rides-agai...

genxy - an hour ago

To anyone from crowdsupply listening, please turn down your VPN check. I am not stripping my privacy protection to use your site.

the_biot - 11 minutes ago

Why the few closed-source components on the system? You mention the bus, USB PHY etc -- are those things harder to design than the CPU core?

luma - 4 hours ago

bunnie your book "Hacking the XBox" taught me how to get started on reversing electronics, took the fear out of the process, and replaced it with fun. Thanks for the multi-decades long effort you've made to make these tools available and accessible and approachable, your contributions to the hacker community are immeasurable and I cannot say thank you enough.

Thanks man!

alexisread - 3 hours ago

Great work on the chip, I’m really onboard with the trusted computing aim!

Is there a way to bootstrap binary code into the reram? I’m thinking being able to ‘hand-type’ in a few hundred byte kernel rather than use a flashing tool

bArray - 5 hours ago

> Those with a bit of silicon savvy would note that it’s not cheap to produce such a chip, yet, I have not raised a dollar of venture capital. I’m also not independently wealthy. So how is this possible?

What kind of order of magnitude of cost are we talking about?

What are the next steps - is there some service to cut the wafer and put into a package for you?

5 hours ago [Collapse]

bunnie - 4 hours ago

The masks alone are single digit millions, but with all the design tools and staff costs typically tens of millions is the benchmark number for a tape out in this node.

After coming out of the fab, the chips go through probing, packaging and reeling.

chuckadams - an hour ago

> What’s a banker going to do with the source code of a chip, anyway?

Hand it to someone who does know what to do with it. It's not as important who initially gets the source so much as having it available when it is needed.

K0balt - 6 hours ago

Very cool! So there’s 5x riscV cores available?

6 hours ago [Collapse]

bunnie - 6 hours ago

Yes, 1x Vexriscv RV32-IMAC + MMU, and 4x PicoRV32's as RV32E-MC for I/O processing, configured with extensions to enable deterministic, real-time bit-banging without having to count clocks.

6 hours ago [Collapse]

alex7o - 4 hours ago

That reminds me a lot of the xmos xcore mcus with 8 cores. I am curious what kind of synchronization primitives have you added and why?

4 hours ago [Collapse]

bunnie - 4 hours ago

I'm actually working on a comprehensive write up on exactly this topic that should be out sometime next week!

4 hours ago [Collapse]

K0balt - 4 hours ago

Just ordered 2 to play with!

cmrdporcupine - an hour ago

Sounds like the Parallax Propeller 1/2 as well.

It's a good model for MCU stuff. There were people pushing Chip Gracey (Parallax) to use RISC-V instead of his custom ISA when he designed the P2 a few years ago, but he chose to do his own thing. Which has made compiler development difficult.

K0balt - 4 hours ago

Nice! I love the specialized io processors. Fantastic work!

gzread - 5 hours ago

This is about transparency just like the Precursor, right? How can I know that my Baochip-1x is really what it says it is?

5 hours ago [Collapse]

bunnie - 4 hours ago

The Baochip is packaged in a form of package that is inspectable using IRIS. [1] It does not give perfect verification but it's the best I can offer until we have more open PDKs.

[1] https://bunnie.org/iris

arj - 2 hours ago

It seems it had hardware support for secure mesh. Anyone know what that is?

intrasight - 4 hours ago

I didn't know there were partially open source RISC-V. I might have missed it in the article, but what was the reason for having some parts closed source?

4 hours ago [Collapse]

theParadox42 - 2 hours ago

It’s not the RISC-V core itself, it’s just some of the surrounding architecture to support the CPU, to turn it into a SOC. So the USB drivers, the AXI memory interfaces, and the analog components, like PLLs for generating clocks, or even the IO pad drivers. These components take the fully open RISC-V core which works in a simulator and makes it work like a normal physical chip would.

mijoharas - 6 hours ago

Cool project. Why is it called the Baochip/Dabao?

Is it big Bao? Or take-away (just learnt the second meaning), or something else?

6 hours ago [Collapse]

bunnie - 6 hours ago

Personally, I love eating "bao" (a style of dumplings), but also coincidentally, a homophone of "bao" in Chinese (different character 保, similar sound) has a meaning of "protect; defend. keep; maintain; preserve. guarantee; ensure". So it means both things to me - one of my favorite foods, and also describes the technology.

"dabao" is just a pun on that - means "take-away" or "to-go". The dabao evaluation board is basically a baochip in a "to-go" package.

6 hours ago [Collapse]

chuckadams - an hour ago

That would explain the naming of OpenBao, a fork of Hashicorp Vault. Goes with the other fork's name (OpenTofu) as well as the meaning you just mentioned.

JSR_FDED - 6 hours ago

I think it’s take-away, or to go. Like when you order some food to go.

Dani99 - an hour ago

Moonton Mobile legend mm level15